Hùng Kings period clothings

INTRODUCTION

Vietnamese peoples proud of nearly 5,000 years civilized tradition. Our tradition is recorded in writing (Since 2879 BC, according to the Vietnamese history written by the imperial court) and cover thousands of years in the ethnic community to the recent. It can be affirmed that the Vietnamese nation is the only nation in the history of humanity honor the cultural values of their culture with the name “văn hiến” (the culture which towards the elevation). A complete and convincing universal unified doctrine as Âm Dương Ngũ Hành (Yin-Yang)- popular and applied to every detail in the daily activities of the Vietnamese, these knowleges has created the thickness of a culture - the foundation of the transcendent Oriental cultural values- enough to against all the destruction of time, with ups and downs of history.

But for over a decade ago to recent, has a lot of researcher both in and outside the country - Almost in flat, on the name of science - made new comment about historical culture of Vietnamese peoples. They said that:

Source of ethnic Vietnamese – “Hung Vuong period is only a inceptive state; formed around VII th century BC "and "in essence, it is only a coalition consisting 15 tribes."

Therefore, clothing of the Vietnamese’s ancestor - as they argue – just the people who is "half-naked and wearing a loin-cloth”. Although this theoretical point is in the name of science, they never made criteria to illuminate the argument called "science". Or, put another way: The new argument of the sources of Vietnamese civilization only demonstrated the subjective look with the very limited logic and completely unscientific basis, although it is on the name of science . These theoretical points are unconnected, unsystematic and are unable to explain the phenomena related to it. the considerable thing is: there are many different hypotheses about the origin and essence of the Hung Vuong - source of Vietnamese peoples. Although they are on the name of science, but these theoretical poits have many different basic of content, disorder and very conflicting.

Someone said that:

"The Hung Vuong exists only about 300 years, with people who is "half-naked and wearing a loin-cloth”

Someone speech:

"The Hung Vuong beginning X th century BC and is an alliance of 15 communications. at the most is a initial state."

Someone have ideas that:

"The Hung Vuong can be 1200 years BC"

Someone said:

"The Hung Vuong is 1500 years BC."

They argue excitingly, opponency, enthusiastic rejection, like objective opinions were criticized. Of course, because of the illogicality of it, so the arguments called new historical comment which review the history and traditional of ethnic Vietnam rejected themselves by the illogicality and contradictory in the comment of every points. All the negative comment points of historical tradition that can have only one right or all wrong. They never can complement each other because of the conflict between that comment. There is one thing, all the creator who created the negative comment about the source of Vietnamese cultural historical traditions, they have forgotten one thing that: though who they are , which academic title, individual or team, they are not eligible enough to think that: their argument is "scientific basis". Because, the knowledge of the people who is on the name of science, not a "scientific basis" to assert the scientific of a science hypotheses. Whether it is knowledge of all Academicians of forestry science welding England, it will be very jerky when they talk like this.

Therefore, need to have scientific criterion to be the basis of assessment of the scientific theoretical points of Vietnamese cultural historical traditions. Can not have a hypothesis which is on the name of science can negative the scientific criteria of it.

On the basis of scientific criteria for a scientific hypothesis, we say that:

"A scientific hypothesis is only consider as true; if it is capable of explaining most of problems and phenomena related to it consistently, complete, systematic, logically, objectivity and ability to prophesy.

Stem and in the name of scientific criteria above, I would like to presented a theoretical points which is opponent with new comments about " Hung Vuong period ethnic clothing. To start on the content of the article, you see the picture below illustrates the clothes of the ancestors of Vietnamese - who pround of 5000 year civilization - described according to the new historical concept. Really, there are no different from the Indian tribes a few hundred years ago.

Hung King and Lang mandarins (the History of Vietnam by picture; set III. Trẻ Publishing 1998.)

Of course, there are not any minimum scientific basis to prove for formal clothes in the picture above which they called the ancestors of Vietnamese. Because, there are not a scientific argument to prove that the clothing on the image above is the the Hung Vuong period clothes, but it is the imposition of people who have opinions deny traditional cultural values of Vietnamese.

The Essay that I honor presented here, is a continuity prove on the basis of science -through the scientific criteria - about the civilization cover almost 5000 years of the Vietnamese.

In my essays and books published, I have proved that:

The theory Âm Dương Ngũ Hành (Yin Yang Wu Xing) - philosophical theory of the ancient Eastern cultures - belong to the Lac Viet civilization (Lac Viet is Vietnamese ancient name).

Not a dynasty of China considered that this doctrine is a orthodox doctrine. But whereas, in Lac Viet civilization, the basic principle of this theory is applied to each phenomenon in the life and clothing of all peoples - it is the main subject of this article.

In this topic I honor presented to you, interested people, about clothes of the ancient Vietnamese and the influence to the area nearby Lac Viet culture - including China - and ethnic clothes today. You can consider as this is the continuity prove of the theoretical point that the Âm Dương Ngũ Hành theory belongs to the Lac Viet, it is also the proof for ethnic clothes and it is the opponent answer for the new comment about Vietnamese ethnic origin. The evidence for ethnic Vietnamese clothes is the continued scientific criteria for the interpretation a reasonable system, consistency issues related to it with objectivity, as of rules and the ability to predict of the view that:

Cultural history of Vietnamese traditional underwent nearly 5000 years.

Hùng King period clothing part 2

Ethnic clothing and ethnic cultural identity:

Ethnic clothing is one of the important factors show the cultural identity of that peoples. If it have not a cultural identity, it is hard to consider it as a peoples. Therefore, if at the time of Hung Vuong, popular clothing of our ancestor is only "half-naked and wearing a loin-cloth", as most historians today think, we could not consider that is a cultural identity. Therefore, it is hard to talk about cultures of the starting time of Hung Vuong, which can only be regarded as a stage in the natural evolution of human history.

Historical concept define that:

"The history of a people is only counted from the established time of that people".

So, the issue of Hung Vuong period clothes particularly important and is one of necessary elements, to demonstrate the civilization of Vietnam, beginning at the era of Hung Kings. The confirmed of cultural identity through ethnic clothing, not simply expressed civilization but also asserted the independence and particular trait of that peoples. When the Manchu dynasty invaded China, one of the first thing they do is forced people to dress their ethnic clothes. Vietnam's history is recorded: Lord Nguyen - to create a cultural identity for Đàng Trong - they've forced people wear clothes adapted from China.

The following text extracted from the book: "Find the cultures of Vietnam" demonstrates this:

"Therefore, in the 1665, King Lê Huyền Tông must issue a royal decree to forbid women to wear skirt, to preserve national procedures. At that time, the end of XVII century, to create the opposite of the Đàng Ngoài, Lord Nguyen in the South has ordered the men and women "used North country clothes " (China) to show the transformation."

Events that occurred on XVII century has demonstrated that: ethnic clothes are very important, because of the factor confirmed the cultural identity and independence of a nation. This event also showed at least 700 years after the Vietnamese national renaissance, the Vietnamese have shown a clothing culturally specific. This culturally specific - expressed in ethnic clothes (of course not only women's clothing) - has ever since? If the men at the time Hung Vuong only wear loin cloth and half naked, according to the new concept of Vietnamese history, so Vietnamese express the cultural identity through clothes in particular in which time of the history? Writer believe that the new historical concept which deny the value of traditional Vietnamese culture, will not be able to prove "specific identity of the ethnic Vietnamese clothing just start from the national renaissance- Ding; Le; Ly Tran ... ". Because, in fact clothing express national identity had existed earlier: From the time of Hung Vuong, the origin the Vietnamese culture.

In other words:

"People can not prove a true from a false one"

But with the question above, itself is only a hypothesis on the most common issue: People in a society have created a completed world view system, it is Yin Yang Wu Xing and the comprehensive application on most issues that people care, this society has completed organization with full awareness complexion of its morphology in the humanity culture and in social relations with moral values, expressed through the rituals with human nature lie the legend of the "Betel and areca". With a society which is introduced like that but it is not Van Lang, whether we can believe that: The people in that society is very primitive living "men are half-naked and wearing a loin-cloth, women wear skirts "or not? Therefore, official clothing and popular in Van Lang society , surely must be consistently fit with what that society has. That mean it must have sufficient clothes in social activities and in leaders social class, must have enough clothing to show the solemnity of ceremonies of the country. The proof of ethnic clothes in the social of Hung Vuong period is the continued development of the comment proved 5000 years civilization of ethnic Vietnamese, demonstrated systematic, consistent and complete and available function to explain all matters related to it impartially, rules and foretell ability.

To prove to the comment above, please compare the illustrative picture, images of archaeological relics and the arguments presented below.

If the picture above illustrate for "the legend of Nhất Dạ lagoon", certainly it can illustrate for the activities of Chu Dong Tu when he is not an orphan yet in the story in Hùng King period. But it is copied from the book "sketch of Vietnam early 20th century" (Trẻ Publishing 1989 - Nguyen Manh Hung introduced). This is the collection of a French scholar named Joseph Henri Oger. In other words, right in the 20th century these people still in the “loin cloth and half naked”, but these clothes are not popular in social activities at this time.

The big image above, which you are considering, is a famous folk paintings "making a scene of jealousy", line of folk paintings of Dong Ho village. That picture is rich of humanity, shown in the image of the kid put his hand together and prostrate himself before his parents. Two women in the picture are not in the Hùng King period, but the reader can compare with the illustrative picture of Hung King period clothes in the upper left, it is printed in the book "History of Vietnam by pictures (Trẻ Publishing 1996, volume 3th). Sure you will be surprised about the similarity of the two women in the picture. Of course the illustrative picture in the book "History of the Vietnam by picture" does not reflect the truth about popular clothes in activities of the Hung King period. Because it can not reflect the similar in the distance of nearly 2,000 years according to the new historical opinion on Hung King period clothes that they describe with the Vietnamese folk paintings.

Now, we compare the bronze effigy on the knife staff with popular northern women clothes in the picture below:

The picture above which you are considering is a cluster of picture, are grafted of bronze knife staff from the Hung King period - dating is determined to be 300 years BC, was found in Lang Ngam - Ha Bac - carved a women with Hung King period clothing and the picture describe the clothes of a Northern woman-draw by writer, is grafted next to this cluster of picture, it is easier for you to compare. Type of clothes in this picture is not popular, but you can still see in the elderly living in a rural town far from any city in North Vietnam, in this year 2008. It is the last generation lie down on the hammock and sing a baby to sleep, by telling ancient tales and legends of a country Van Lang - where the original of Vietnamese lived - before cede to the media mass and the wisdom researcher talk about their stories.

Through the illustrative picture which was presented to the reader above,

we also recognize the match entirely by the contours of the clothing on the knife staff and the modern clothing Vietnamese women still wear nowadays, but not popular. This proved a keen saying, dress of the women still wear currently in the North is a continuation of traditional clothes from Hung King period shown on the bronze knife staff. Simultaneous comparison also shows:

From 2300 years back now - basically - the form of popular folk clothes have no significant change. Particularly exciting and darkest time in the history of Vietnam, it was 1000 year dominated by the Chinese with fierce assimilative conspiracy of the Chinese.

Thus, we completely have bases to say that:

Since the appearing of the bronze knife staff which shows clothes from Hung King period 300 years BC, there are not many change.

So, we can confirm:

Under the Hung King period, our ancestor had clothes which are similar with popular Vietnamese clothes before the time Trinh - Nguyen conflict (about 18th century) and similar with ethnic clothes still exist in rural Vietnam.

Thereby, we also realize that: clothing for the popular strata of society Hung King period brought specific cultural characteristics of ethnic Vietnamese, ethnic Vietnamese and its society must have a developed civilization to manipulate that sophisticated clothing structures.

Hùng King period clothing part 3

Clothing of upper strata in Hùng King period

Of course, in a civilized society of ancient times, when the popular costumes of popular classes were complete and diverse, clothes of the upstream is also consistent with its class, for the formal and the implementation of the national ritual culture.

Now, we continue to compare the image below to demonstrate clothes of high class in the social strata Van Lang and find the original point of Lac Viet clothes

The image above which you are considering is the copy from the comic "The romance of three kingdoms" made by the Chinese artists, Mui Ca Mau Publishing again in 1995, full set of 30 volumes. This is the picture number 3795 set 16. Image of a man in the highlights of the picture is Sun Quan (II and III century AD). Pictures of women between clusters is Madame Sun, Sun Quan's sister, Liu Bei's wife also copy from the comic above. Please compare all the clothes of the "The romance of Three Kingdoms" characters, shown the Sinic culture in the picture above, with the the people on the handle of the bronze knife in the Hung King period which is 500 years earlier (From data in the book "Age Hung King "Social Science Publishing House, Hanoi 1995).

You will see a similar in clothes. The only difference is the large sleeves of the "The romance of three kingdoms" character's shirt and the tight sleeves of the effigy on the handle of the bronze knife, the remain clothes almost entirely the same. If the clothes of "the romance of Three Kingdoms" regal is not to imitate Hung King period clothes, so the clothes of the girl on the handle of the bronze knife of Hung King period definitely can not imitate the characters in "the romance of Three Kingdoms". Because, this knife's date is earlier than "the romance of Three Kingdoms" period at least 500 years. The problem does not just stop there.

About clothes of the high society of social Van Lang, I would like to present a quote in Kinh Thư (書經 Shū Jīng). Kinh Thư is a work ever be deemed to be a product of civilization of China, but there are many proven hallmarks of civilization Van Lang. The first imprint of Lạc Việt people in the Kinh Thư proven in the book "Hung King period, the legend and myth" (Nguyen Vu Tuan Anh. Publishing Culture Information 2nd edition - 2002) is a "Hồng pham cửu trù", the first constitution of the Lac Việt. The following excerpt concerning ethnic clothes Hung King period quoted in the book "Thượng Thư (books for the king) - books recorded utmost antiquity" (translation Võ Ngọc Liên, Trần Kiết Hùng. Đồng Nai publishing house 1996, page 156):

Three categories such as sun, moon, and stars were used to make flag (banner), the dragon to aim king's clothes, the tiger to aim highranking madarin's clothes, the distinction depend on three different types of clothes : cổn miện (crown for the king), tệ miện (hat for high ranking mandarin), tuyệt mịch (high ranking mandarin's belt). Name of three types of clothing are based on drawings on clothes to call, as "cổn" (crown) there is dragon crown, there are nine rank, "long cổn" (dragon crown) is in the lead. "Tệ" means pheasant. There are seven kind of "tệ triều" (clothes of high ranking mandarin when they attend the king's audience), the tiger is in the lead.

Through the passage, readers find that "cổn miện" (means the king's crown) has nine rank. which "long cổn" is in the lead; "tệ miện" is the pheasant-shaped hats. About the image of the dragon-shaped crowns of king and pheasant-shaped hats of highranking madarin - oddly - it was proven on the bronze drum of civilization Van Lang.

Readers are easily to find, the hat of the people on this picture of the bronze drum shows the head of dragon and the phoenix which have been stylized to show status of that people, it is coincided with the Kinh Thư.

In the first few chapters of Kinh Thư, the word "viết" (means "to write") was read and write like the word "Việt" (means ethnic Viet). "Viết nhược kê cổ" also is "Việt nhược kê cổ" *.The most Chinese ancient annotators, such as Mã Dung and Khổng An, explain it is prelusive saying but they don't give the reason why writers used that saying. why the word "viết" and "việt" were used in a jumble... So that there are double-meaning opening sentence "Việt nhược kê cổ". Both Mã Dung and Khổng An believe that "nhược" means "thuận" (means "to consent"), "kê" means "khảo" (means "to enumerate"). So that the sentence above means "Vietnamese consent to the king to enumerate ancient things". If it is "viết nhược kê cổ", the sentence will be lack of subject. If it is replaced by "Việt", the subject of the sentence is Vietnamese, but it is grievous if cite the Vietnamese in kinh Thư, so they believe that "Việt" and "viết" is the same...

*Note:

_"Viết nhược kê cổ" means "to write to enumerate ancient things"

_"Việt nhược kê cổ" means "Vietnamese consent to the king to enumerate ancient things"

Through the excerpt of Mr.Kim Định, that writer does not think: "Việt nhược kê cổ" means "the Vietnamese consent to the king to enumerate ancient things" and more Vietnamese people can not have the credit of copying the Kinh Thư for the civilization of China. From analyses above, completely, we have facilities to put a doubious question mark about the true origin of the Kinh Thư:

Affordable the famous books is derived from Van Lang civilization?

And the question can be understood as:

"brief ancient stories of Vietnamese"

So, with the mark of Van Lang civilized evidence in Kinh Thư; absolutely can not believe that: Clothes of the time of Kings Yao, Shun coincided randomly with a image on the bronze drum. This phenomenon can only be explained logically that:

Dress of the monarch referred to the Kinh Thư, is the Van Lang monarch's clothes. The issue coerce into accepting that King Yao, Shun manipulated clothes like coerce to accepting Van Lang academic civilization to the kings of ancient China, when the images of the monarch clothes shown on the bronze drum of the Lac Viet civilization. Kinh Thư is the book "brief ancient stories of Vietnamese", this has clearly stated right from the first sentence of the book "Việt nhược kê cổ" and its contents completely coincide with archaeological relics related to Vietnamese culture presented.

If according the new concept which believe that: Hùng King period existed only a few hundred years (VII century BC) and areas of Van Lang integrity only in northern Vietnam, it will not be contacted and there is close demonstration of an association between the clothes on Lac Viet bronze drum to the monarch of King Yao (about 2000 years BC according to Hanja documents) shown in Kinh Thư, by a distance of tens of thousands of miles geographical and millennia of time. Back to the clothes issues , the comparison above shows:

The presence of King Yao (2253 BC) in the prescribed clothing for the monarch, in association with the image on the Lac Viet bronze drum (an archaeological relics), has proved keenly that: Van Lang civilization was manipulated not only the common clothes for people in society, but also in the high strata, there were clothes shown the solemnity in nation ceremonies and the distinctions in hierarchy.

This additional demonstrates for the matters presented above and there is continued connection:

* Image on the bronze drum that Professor Nguyễn Khắc Thuần said: "picture of dancing people" in fact they are pictures shows the leader of Van Lang State implementing the national ceremonies. This is evidenced by the dragon image and the phoenix bird image on hats they are wearing.

*Since that we take the the question: stylized Rectangle on their hand are document which were read during the ceremony. It was demonstrates by the corrugations on the top of the rectangle. This hypothesis additional evidence for the existence of a writing system of the Lac Viet people.

* The existence of images of leader of Van Lang state on the bronze drum are: King = wearing dragon-shaped hat; high ranking-mandarins = wearing phoenix bird-shaped hats, it has confirmed the existence of a close organization state in ancient times, similar to the powerful ancient countries at the same time. The clothing has existed for millennia BC in Van Lang civilization, has become a cradle for the cultures embodied in the tradition of Vietnam today. These arguments and images illustrate the clothes on Hung King period is complementary with a archaeological finding:

19.2.1.1 First, it is silk. Along with planting rice, sericulture has existed very early. In the archaeological site of the late stone about 5000 years ago (like sites Bầu Tró), has found trace of the fabric, there is terra-cotta plumb (to twine treads) . To the Dong Son period (about the 3000-2500 years ago), the people on the bronze drums evenly wear shirts, skirts, and loin-cloths. Transplanted rice and mulberry cultivation, agricultural and sericulture - it is the main task and always associated together of agriculture in Vietnam. From the ancient Han people always see they are two most typical features of Southern culture: those are the first two main features that Từ Tùng Thạch mentioned in the book Việt Giang 178 basin people (Việt Giang 178 lưu vực nhân dân) (Kim Dinh 1971a: 108 ); the word "Man", which Han people refers to allude the South people (Vietnamese) contains insectan meaning which allude silk-worm.

(to Find cultures of Vietnamese character - this book has quoted above)

Hùng King period clothing part 4

The intangible cultural heritage, ancient texts and archaeological related

Through the presentation above we going to a comment: images of human half naked and wearing loin clothes - if it is mentioned in the relics from Hung Kinh period - then it just shows pictures of the festival, or describe working scenes ....

The picture shows the folk festival titled "wrestling" in the line of Dong Ho paintings, it described participants in the the festival are half naked and wearing loin clothes, but readers will surely don't think that common clothes in social activities at the time of this painting are all loin clothes and half naked. Similar to martial artist of the modern Japanese Sumo, but sure clothes of modern Japanese is not a Sumo martial artist's clothes when they are on station, means "half naked and wearing loin clothes".

One period went to legendary history, suffer the ravages of thousands years history, of conquered army by the Northern dynasties. The archaeological relics found belong to this era, not enough to prove keenly for the common clothes of human in Van Lang civilization . The cultural value of clothing found in the archaeological relics only are the bronze knife staffs (handle), represents a form of clothes in Hung King period. How can find the clothes in the ancient tomb dating back several millennia ago? Therefore, very surprised and really hurt with a dogmatic conclusion about ethnic clothes with the perception that: "There is no archaeological relics found that proved the traditional history of 5000 years Vietnamese ethnic." I do not entirely negative value of the relics archaeological found. However, it should be stated that:

"archaeological relics are not the only evidence to prove a historical comment .

The thoughtful of ancestors to descendants have had the opportunity to find the original point of cultures of Vietnam. It is the cultural heritage handed down in folklore as the fragile rays - but very sharp - left in the old directory is still handed down millennia, have demonstrated for the cultures of the ethnic Vietnamese experienced in 5000. The match images between ancient objects of Hung King and the cultural heritage left, the development proved more logical connection with the phenomena involved, a condition essential evidence show ability to reflect reality and is the basis of scientific theories about clothes Hung Vuong time in this article.

In the book Analects, Charter Hiến Vấn , when commented on the important role of Guan Zhong to the Qi and its influence to the society of China, the Confucius has said:

"If there was not Guan Zhong, we must gather our hair into a bun and set the flap to the left like Man Di people"

*Guan Zhong: Prime minister of the Qi.

*Man Di: the name which Chinese used to call Vietnamese in the ancient time.

Readers can find a saying of Confucius has led in most of the books translated into Vietnamese language related to Analects, such as:

"Analects - scripture of China. Publishing Dong Nai 1996, Ho Si Hiep compiled, Tran Kiet Hung Correction, page 208; or right in the book "History of Chinese civilization. author Witt Durant, translated by Nguyen Hien Le. Publishing Culture and Information - 1997. Page 32 ...)... Maybe the opinion of negating cultural values of traditional ethnic Vietnamese were admitted by "most scientists in the country" and the so-called "scientific community in the world", but there is not anyone see the book Analects?

Guan Zhong - Prime Minister of National Qi in Spring and Autumn Period - lived in early 7th century BC, year of birth unknown, died 654 BC, who put the Qi became a powerful country, the word hegemony almost Zhou Dynasty. This is equivalent to the time period that the researchers have based on the Việt sử lược, said: "This is the first stage of the Hùng King period."

Việt sử lược writed:

At the time of Trang King of Zhou Dynasty (698-682 BC), in the Gia Ninh area, there is a stranger used magic to conquer tribes, claiming to be Hung King"

Therefore, through the cited above we also found the closely equivalent of the date of Guan Zhong's time (d. 654 BC and the time of (Trang Vương)Zhou Zhou Dynasty: 698-682 BC) and established time of the national of Hung King under the new look - which they said:

"Hung King period appear only around VII century BC. It is ridiculous when the Confucius admitted a developed civilization at the area right next to residence of Chinese peoples, able to influence and dominate the development of this civilization. Researchers already have said: "The Man Di people is in the North of China" (?). In fact, in the ancient bibliographic Hanja, there was not any time they use the "Man Di" to refer to the Northern Chinese people. Contrast, in the ancient bibliographic Hanja, "Man Di" are words used to refer to many Vietnamese people. The word "Man people" in a saying of Confucius is not a common noun to refer to the ethnic peoples have developed different levels, live in Southern Yangtze River. Here, Confucius has refers to Lac Viet civilization. To prove this, please see the picture of the cultural heritage of folk Vietnam:

The picture that writer show here is copied from Heritage magazine, published at september and October of the 1996 Aviation Administration of Vietnam. Absolutely no use computer techniques to flip horizontal picture. Readers can verify this by right hands of some characters stand in the picture.

Sure you will recognize immediately: this is the main character in the water puppet, an unique folk art of the Vietnamese. Readers also see flaps of these characters is in the left and little buns of these water puppet characters. Until the early 20th century, most of the ethnic Vietnamese men still gather their hair into a bun. This thing certainly does not need to prove. At this point, the question is: What is the base that the traditional water puppet craftsmen used to carve the characters which have shirt flap in the left? The phenomenon "puppets have shirt flap in the left" is a random, or derived from the fact which existed from cultural original point produced it? When thousands of years have passed, we look familiar with the right flap, what does "the flap to the left of the water puppets" contact with the question of the book Analects of Confucius:

"If there was not Guan Zhong, we must gather our hair into a bun and set the flap to the left like Man Di people"

Have water puppet characters handed down from generation to generation among the common people reflected the clothes of actual activities of the Hùng King period? Regretfully! Water puppets which have flaps in the left today is very rare. They've modernized it by giving it a flap on the right. But fortunately! This is not the only evidence for ethnic clothes of Hùng King period.

Please continue to see the image below:

Dao ethnic dress in Phu Tho

Taken from the article "open the door to find each other" Ngoc Vinh & Luong Ngoc An

(Tuoi Tre newspaper Saturday August 6, 2002)

Of course the author of this article has no good intention to introduce ethnic Dao clothes and help to demonstrated opinion of the writer. Dao ethnic is an ethnic with a long-standing culture in the ethnic communities in Vietnam. Therefore; ethnic clothes are also still retain the traditional culture of the old Van Lang: On the clothes of the couple in the picture above, readers also found the men has a flap put in to the left, the woman has a flap put to the right.

Image above is taken directly by writer on VTV3-television programs. The content described a wedding of ethnic Mong. We once again find the mark on clothes from the ancient ancestors for thousands year ago with men wear clothes with flap in the "left" and women in the "right":

And yet, there is a great sign, it is famous carvings on a cave in Hunan province, in the South of Yangtze river, dating back over 2,000 years, but people living in this region still retransmit: It is the King Fu Xi and Nuwa. We find that the shirt flap of King Fu Xi is in the left and the shirt flap of Nuwa is in the right.

Dao and Mong ethnic groups living in remote mountain areas, so they have little influenced by Han culture. Therefore, the phenomenon of the male shirt flap settings on the left in the clothes of the nation left till nowadays, along with materials presented above: Those are evidences in the serial culture proceeded from thousands years ago and until now in the cultures of Vietnam, an imposing legendary in the South Yangtze river. The evidence presented at that comment completely fit the criteria of science:

"A scientific hypothesis is only consider as true; if it is a reasonable explaination for most matters relating to it; is objectivity; systematic, regularity and capable of prophets."

The problem is pleased represented with readers, to prove an advanced culture existed in the South of Yangtze River that Confucius has mentioned.

Through the contact in the previous section, demonstrates the "Hùng King period clothing" continued through the images below.

Image below is a composite image, copied in the "Hùng King period" book (books has led) the bronze knife handle described clothes of Hung King period and the puppet characters in the role of "Fairy Dance".

Through the image above, sure you will find a complete coincidence in form of the hat on top of the puppets and the hat on the bronze handle. Besides the coincidence of the hat, there are some other traits on the clothes of the two objects also coincided almost completely. From that, it can lead to the sensible connection for a common particular structure for overall clothes of Hung King period through water puppets. Or in other words:

we completely have actually scientific base when using the selected model of the traditional water puppets to restored clothes for Hung King period.

The problem also does not stop here, as we continue to compare the hat on the knife handle - was confirmed dating from Hung King period - with hats on the water puppets "Fairy Dance" and hats on two statues Tien Dung and Ngoc Hoa princess, now they are worshiped in the Hùng temple:

statues of princesses in Hùng King period

Documentary image taken at the Hung Temple, Phu Tho. Currently, there are many water puppet plays written nowadays, or in the previous century. But the play "Fairy dance" is a traditional play, exist long time ago in art of puppet of Vietnam, all the puppet company have that play. Therefore, the role of the puppet "Fairy Dance" certainly has appeared from time immemorial. Over a distance of more than 1,000years the Chinese domination, water puppets art had recorded in the stone stele Sùng Thi Diên Linh - Lý period - Đôi Sơn pagoda (Duy Tiên, Nam Hà province), at the beginning of the Vietnamese national renaissance, thousands of years ago. But that does not mean that the puppet appears only in this period. Temple of 18 Hung Kings period determined built (or renovated in XIV century). The bronze knife handle is about 2500 years ago and only discovered a few decades ago.

First we need to confirm that: puppetry "Fairy Dance", the princess statues at Hùng Kings Temple and the bronze knife handle are products of intellectual creativity. Puppetry "Fairy Dance" and the princess statues at Hùng Kings Temple had existed before finding the bronze knife handle with distance more than 2000 years for the creation of this two objects. Therefore, it can not be considered as a copy from the handle of the knife or a random match. Form of existence of similar cultural heritage with distance more than the millennium, therefore they must have the same original point of the culture which had created them, but not determine the beginning of the form of its existence yet. But certainly not after Hung King. The match was almost entirely in the form of clothes of the cultural heritage with archaeological relics - was found before the existence of cultural heritage - affirm original point of culture and its starting point of form is the Hung King era.

Hùng Kings period clothing part V

All comparisons above and demonstration proved that: clothes for the Vietnamese nation in Hùng Kings period was reflected on the water puppet characters. And a saying of Confucius: "If there was not Guan Zhong, we must gather our hair into a bun and set the flap to the left like Man Di people" is a next logical contact, to show these clothes are from the VII th century BC in Lạc Việt civilization. These match contact, related phenomena were completed by a section quoted in the ancient history book:

Tô Đông Pha (苏轼) has wrote:

... Nam Việt nation, from the Tam Đại period to the less, there were not any reign could quell revolts. At the Qin (246-207 BC), although we had set mandarins to rule, then they were back to barbarous status . Bị Ly defeated that country and divided into nine districts. But in the Eastern Han period, there was a girl named Trưng Trắc, raised an army for a war, had shook 60 towns. Contemporary time, ancestor King has pacify the under heaven, he saw that people were already tired and bored of using soldiers, he closed Jewel Gate from Western Regions. Nam Việt is the deserted place, not worth to upset the military of the king, if there was not Tuân Tức Hầu (Ma Yuan) took the time to suppress, the nine districts people still set flap to the left until now .*

Through the above excerpt, once again we see the rationality between the phenomena and problems related to the flap set on the left of nine districts of Nam Viet . This demonstrates the uniformity of culture in the land south Yangtze River, it is completely different to Huaxia culture.

This is the land: North faces Dongting Lake; South bordering Hồ Tôn (?); western borders Ba Thục (?); Eastern bordering the East Sea of old Van Lang. The existence of cultural setting clothes on the left of Nam Việt, contact to book Analects of Confucius has demonstrated that: Before the 7th century BC and farther - from the Tam Đại period (?) - Lạc Việt culture is a preeminent culture in the area. Influence of this culture is significant, because "If there was not Guan Zhong, we must gather our hair into a bun and set the flap to the left like Man Di people". Confucius do not only admitted from ancient China. Tô Đông Pha (苏轼) in medieval also continue confirm this. And the modern day, the Chinese researchers also acknowledge it . Readers please read the excerpt below:

Mysterious ancient tombs discovered in China

Archaeologists have unearthed one of these tombs over 2,500 years old, may belong to a king of mysterious reign Ba (Ba Kingdom) . In addition to the 500 bronze objects, in the tombs also have the skeleton of the two woman and a man, faces up towards the sky and the East. Research team suggest that this may be the entourage or vassal is buried with kings. If confirmed, this will be the archaeological findings related to the most important Ba dynasties . The tomb is in Luo Jiaba , Sichuan Province, it has characteristics typical of a tomb of the highest class among the tombs of the dynasty was found. 31 other tombs have been excavated in the area. Most of the bronze objects are weapons (such as lance, sword, dagger and axes), or objects used in worshiping corresponding to the supreme position of the tomb owner.Ba reign covers three areas of Sichuan, Hunan and elsewhere in southern China before disappearing in mysterious circumstances around 2,000 years ago. The people of this era is described as the aggressive and brave warriors . However, their origin, social structure and culture remains a mystery.

Minh Thi (according to Xinhua)

Thus, with all these problems proved which related to Hùng Kings period social status showed a reasonable correlation, confirmed the truthfulness and definiteness of Vietnam's ancient cultures of a nearly 5000 years of ethnic Vietnamese (from 2879 BC to 2001), an original point of the Văn Lang nation. West borders Ba Thục (?); northern borders Dongting Lake; South bordering Hồ Tôn (?); East bordering the East Sea. the time which is considered as "a mysteriously vanishing around 2000 years ago", is the time of the collapse of civilization Văn Lang.

Phenomenon "setting flap on the left" is suitable to the popularity application and principles, relate to people of Eastern ancient academic theory which is Yin Yang Wu Xing doctrine. That is the principle of "male left, female right".

Yin Yang Wu Xing theory concept that:

Movements of Yin Yang are always metabolized to each other. Yin is in the Yang and vice versa. Males is installed in the Yang so males set shirt flap to the left of Yin, females is installed in the Yin so females set flap to the right of Yang. Phenomenon "setting flaps to the left" is an evidence proves the theory Yin Yang Wu Xing belongs to the Vietnamese and applied in detail of daily activities and social life. This phenomenon is an additional opinion about the origin of the ancient Eastern academic originating from cultures of Lac Viet. This is the evidence to confirm that: Lạc Việt civilization at the time 7th century BC has developed brilliantly in many aspects.

Contact the clothes of the water puppets and the origin of Lạc Việt folk art with archaeological relics and bibliography, also led to the continuation of contact to many social and cultural issues at the time of Hung Kings, such as music, theater, art, etc.... are related organically to a water puppets stage. From arguments and cited the above, all have a basis to assert that:

Hung Kings period clothing have completed and set the form in all strata of society, the hight classes have had the solemn clothes in countries ceremonies .

Vietnamese completely have scientific basis to prove the original point of nearly 5000 years culture in all aspects.

-----------------

* Note: An Nam chí lược; Lê Tắc; First Volume ; "Ancient Area" item. Hue University in 1961. Father Professor Cao Văn Luận.

Without purpose. (!)

Yet nothing remains unfurthered.

Vietnamese ancient clothing in Hùng King period-part 6

Restoration ancient Vietnamese clothes - Hung Kings period social

Evidence on all sectors: from the ancient texts of Confucius, archaeological relics and conclusions of archeological, cultural heritage intangible..etc.. With an argument which satisfies scientific criteria by a close connection, systematic and consistent with the related phenomena logically, proved that: ethnic clothes as Hung Kings period is clothes of ethnic Vietnamese in the most civilized society in that time in Orient and far beyond the Han civilization, latest is in the VII th century BC. Thus we have completely scientific basis for restoration of these forms of clothes for the time of the Hung Kings period of ethnic Vietnamese...

I - The vision of the new historical point of view on clothes at Hùng Kings period.

First, we review the picture below describes the Hung King period clothes from the new historical perspective.

Hùng King and Lang madanrins

We compare it with the photo of a cultural and artistic troupe performing "gongs" of the peoples of the Highlands (Tây Nguyên) below

We see clothes of Highlands (Tây Nguyên) ethnic costumes and the so-called clothes of "Hung Kings and Lang mandarins" almost identical. Unfortunately for the "Most scientists in the country" and "scientific community in the world": They can not prove and explain on their "scientific basis" about identical relationship between the two forms of this clothes. Of course, they can not contact the clothes of the Native Indian (in America) for the Hung Kings period which they have described. In short: They have the opinion that: "Hùng Kings period is a beginning state" and "in fact is an alliance of 15 tribes" so the inevitable consequence is: they must choose the poorest clothes that they know to illustrate the idea called "scientific basis" of them. Therefore, looking at the so-called "Hung Kings period clothes" in the new perspective, we see it looks like traditional ethnic Highland clothes such a bizarre way.

Those who have negative opinions about value of traditional ethnic Vietnamese cling to their basic foundation: "there is no archaeological relics to demonstrate the history of nearly 5000 years culture". But in illustrative pictures they use to illustrate about the Hùng Kings period, they deny their argument themselves. They take the current clothes of the ethnic minorities in modern times to illustrate the past.

Perhaps it is more than enough to see the "scientific basis" product, focused intelligence of "Most of the inland scientists" plus "the international scientific community". It is pitiful.

II-Hùng Kings period clothing restoration relies on scientific criteria

"A scientific hypothesis is only considered as true; if it is capable of explaining most logical problems and phenomena related to it consistently, complete, systematic, regularly, objectivity and the ability to prophesy.

1. Clothes of Hùng Kings and Lạc Hầu (hight ranking mandarins)

Related archaeological relics :

Loyal to this scientific criteria. now we review the image on the Lạc Việt bronze drum - an archaeological relics - which has dating about VII th century BC

Relevant documents:

"Thượng Thư (books for the Kings) - books recorded ancient time" (translation Võ Ngọc Liên, Trần Kiệt Hùng. Đồng Nai publishing house 1996, page 156): Three categories such as sun, moon, and stars were used to make flag (banner), the dragon to aim king's clothes, the tiger to aim high ranking mandarin's clothes, the distinction depend on three different types of clothes : cổn miện (crown for the king), tệ miện (hat for high ranking mandarin), tuyệt mịch (high ranking mandarin's belt). Name of three types of clothing are based on drawings on clothes to call, as "cổn" (crown) there is dragon crown, there are nine rank, "long cổn" (dragon crown) is in the lead. "Tệ" means pheasant. There are seven kind of "tệ triều" (clothes of high ranking mandarin when they attend the king's audience), the tiger is in the lead.

Compared to the cultural heritage intangible traditions related - you can easily recognize the completely similarities below:

Heritage related

Mr.Táo's hat (Mr.Táo is a genie in Vietnamese kitchen)

To worship and burn on the day Mr.Táo fly to the heaven, or worship the indigenous gods of the

Vietnamese popular beliefs.

Hat of the Saint at festival. (Photo taken at Thanh Hóa)

Through archaeological relics, ancient surviving documents in bibliographic in Chinese, the intangible traditional cultural heritage , perhaps it has proved clothes of Hùng Kings through the image below that writers do not need to illustrate:

Dress of all the saints in the "Ngũ phủ cộng đồng", is the clothes of the Hùng Kings and Lạc Hầu in the development of the country Văn Lang. With Lạc Hầu clothes, it is replaced the dragon head by the phoenix head.

2. Women clothes in Văn Lang society:

a) Clothes for hight strata:

We continue to compare the archaeological relics, the heritage left in the intangible folk culture proved in the article above to restore clothes for women of hight strata on the Văn Lang society - original point of Vietnamese peoples.

The bronze knife staff of Hùng Kings period can not mimic clothes of Lady Sun (孫權, Sun Quan's sister). Well this is obvious. And of course traditional intangible cultural heritage of Vietnamese culture, also does not mimic clothes of Liu Bei's wives. Because it has an original point of its culture. Therefore, we can say that: The Chinese artists have been restored clothes of southern Yangtze River culture for a national occupy and rule over unchalleged in this land - Wu country in Three Kingdoms period. Therefore, we all have full evidence to restored clothes in hight strata in the ancient Văn Lang society:

Lady Sun - the third century BC.

Illustrations by Chinese painters

Mỵ Nương

(restoration made by Thiên Sứ)

b )Popular women clothes in Hùng Kings period society.

interested people, please compare of the human picture on the bronze knife handle with popular clothes which is relatively common in rural areas of North Vietnam. They completly have specific characteristic similarities. If you comment about characteristics, clothes on the bronze knife staff is more luxurious because it has fabric belt across the abdomen. And the fabric strip in front of the abdomen is more elaborate decoration.

If we compare the bronze knife handle with a series of clothes of female puppet in the image below we see these similarities in many different types of clothes and the basic characteristics on clothes remains the same: There are a fabric strip in the front, wearing brassiere and fabric strip belt around the abdomen.

Through ancient texts, archaeological relics, cultural heritage and intangible cultural phenomenon related, which the writer has demonstrated above, is the basis for a scientific conclusion that: the clothes of the water puppets and the cultural heritage which is traditional clothes for ethnic Vietnamese in the Hùng Kings period and ancient Vietnamese cultural values were Sinicization in more than 1,000 years of Chinese domination.

We will continue to complete this topic to illustrate the restoration of clothes for all classes of society in an era of Văn Lang - original point of history, culture of Vietnamese peoples with nearly 5000 years culture, with related proof. This article is incomplete.

Without purpose. (!)

Yet nothing remains unfurthered.

Purpose : theo HungNguyen, đây chính là những viên gạch đầu tiên đưa các phát kiến này ra thế giới...một chặng đường còn dài dài dài...dài ..và ..dài.

Văn sư phụ viết ngoài các từ chuyên môn rất khó nhằn, hầu hết là câu phức (complex sentence) còn có rất nhiều thành phần xen kẻ, hầu củng cố làm vững chắc lập luận. Âu cũng là "vấn nạn" chung như các ngành học thuật khác. Trình độ đọc hiểu ( reading comprehensive) của chính tiếng Việt thuộc hạng siêu nhiều khi còn phải đọc tới đọc lui vài lần mới hiểu. Khi chuyển ngữ, chính các thành phần xen kẻ này làm người đọc dễ lạc mất trọng tâm của ý muốn truyền đạt (topic of the sentence, topic of the paragraph). Rin86 có nghiên cứu môn này, lại học bên Tây, còn khó dịch nữa thì các cô dịch thuật chuyên nghiệp ăn 10đô 1 trang cũng vã mồ hôi chứ chẳng chơi.

Góp ý nhỏ là sao sư phụ không cho làm một bản lược dịch trước, tóm tắt thôi, lược bỏ hết các thành phần xen kẻ, đi thẳng vào ý chính, như vậy ngăn ngắn thôi, dễ đọc, dễ hiểu, rồi sau đó dịch chuyên sâu, mở rộng. Thông thường người ta khi đọc cái gì, nhất là lĩnh vực mới, ý tưởng mới, lạ lẫm, thường đọc mỏng mỏng trước lấy nội dung, lấy khí thế rồi đọc dày dày sau lấy chuyên sâu. Ngay từ đầu bập vào 1 cuốn dày cộp, khó hiểu dễ dội ngược trở ra.

Purpose : theo HungNguyen, đây chính là những viên gạch đầu tiên đưa các phát kiến này ra thế giới...một chặng đường còn dài dài dài...dài ..và ..dài.

Văn sư phụ viết ngoài các từ chuyên môn rất khó nhằn, hầu hết là câu phức (complex sentence) còn có rất nhiều thành phần xen kẻ, hầu củng cố làm vững chắc lập luận. Âu cũng là "vấn nạn" chung như các ngành học thuật khác. Trình độ đọc hiểu ( reading comprehensive) của chính tiếng Việt thuộc hạng siêu nhiều khi còn phải đọc tới đọc lui vài lần mới hiểu. Khi chuyển ngữ, chính các thành phần xen kẻ này làm người đọc dễ lạc mất trọng tâm của ý muốn truyền đạt (topic of the sentence, topic of the paragraph). Rin86 có nghiên cứu môn này, lại học bên Tây, còn khó dịch nữa thì các cô dịch thuật chuyên nghiệp ăn 10đô 1 trang cũng vã mồ hôi chứ chẳng chơi.

Góp ý nhỏ là sao sư phụ không cho làm một bản lược dịch trước, tóm tắt thôi, lược bỏ hết các thành phần xen kẻ, đi thẳng vào ý chính, như vậy ngăn ngắn thôi, dễ đọc, dễ hiểu, rồi sau đó dịch chuyên sâu, mở rộng. Thông thường người ta khi đọc cái gì, nhất là lĩnh vực mới, ý tưởng mới, lạ lẫm, thường đọc mỏng mỏng trước lấy nội dung, lấy khí thế rồi đọc dày dày sau lấy chuyên sâu. Ngay từ đầu bập vào 1 cuốn dày cộp, khó hiểu dễ dội ngược trở ra.

Hà Uyên xin cảm ơn HungNguyen về: Những ý kiến đóng góp với anh Thiên Sứ về Ngôn ngữ học

Trân trọng.

Chào bạn Rin86,

Sửa giùm bạn đoạn đầu, thêm chút xíu gia vị, nếu thấy không ổn thì loại bỏ nhé.

Khi nào rảnh VinhL sửa tiếp.

With a 5000 years of proud heritage and rich cultural tradition since 2879BC, Vietnamese history has been recorded by the imperial court. Our history spans thousands of years in continuous struggle against foreign invasions but non-stop in cultural development to this day. It is the only country that honour diplomacy and peace by naming her culture values “Văn Hiến” – The Charter of Cultural Elevation, the non-military way. The Ying Yang and Five Elements principle is the unversal doctrine which has been applied in every aspect of daily activities by all Vietnamese people, from our festival cakes to our daily costume. The knowledge and the application of this principle has contribute to the depth and richness of our culture and society. It is a solid foundation of transcendent oriental values that strong enough to survive, to stand against conquerer forces, the up and down cycles of historical change and the erosion of time.

Thân

Chào bạn Rin86,

Bạn nói đúng lắm, không nên thêm thắt gia vị làm loãng chủ ý.

Thân

Bạn nào dịch cũng hay hết. Tuy nhiên Rin thì bám sát câu chữ quá nên đâm ra đọc hơi rối :( , VinhL thì thoáng quá, đọc rất hay, rất Anh, dễ hiểu nhưng e là...quá thoáng... :rolleyes: và hình như đâu có sửa bài của Rin mà là dịch lại, thành ra double work. HungNguyen mạo muội đề nghị 2 bạn tổ chức dịch theo team gồm những bước sau

• Lập translation team : gồm 2 hay nhiều translator mỗi người ôm 1 chương hoăc khi nào tranh thủ được thời gian nhiều thì dịch nhiều, bận quá thì dịch ít lại. Có ít nhất 1 advisor, am hiểu về lý học hoặc triết học, GS triết Tây học là tốt nhất.
• Lập Technical vocabulary : tránh tình trạng 1 thuật ngữ chuyên môn ở đầu sách dịch thế này, giữa sách kiểu khác, cuối sách lại kiểu khác ( dịch ADNH ở đây là 1 ví dụ ) nên có 1 bảng chú thích thuật ngữ chuyên môn dùng chung, trong đó có thể giải thích thêm nếu cần thiết. Tất cả ai tham gia dịch phải thống nhất dùng chung bảng Terminological vocabulary này. Việc này có thể tiến hành song song hoặc trước khi bắt tay vào dịch sách, và nếu làm tốt nó sẽ là cơ sở dữ liệu sau này cho toàn bộ sách lý học của sư phụ. Chắc chắn có 1 số từ lý học không thống nhất ở Việt nam và trên thế giới, hoặc 1 số từ có nhiều cách dịch. Nếu lập 1 mục riêng cho nó và mọi người tích cực ra vào, truy cập, đóng góp thêm thắt kiểu Wiki thì chẳng bao lâu theo nguyên tắc " tần suất" càng nhiều người tìm thì càng dễ google nhất , nó sẽ trở thành cách gọi mặc định.
• Lập Discussion forum : những câu chữ khó, không thể thống nhất thì đem vaò đây tranh luận. Nếu thống nhất được thì tốt, không thống nhất thì giải thích, ghi chú vô hẳn 1 trang đặc biệt để người đọc rộng đường suy xét.

Không dám múa rìu qua mắc thợ, vài dòng xin góp ý.

Bạn nào dịch cũng hay hết. Tuy nhiên Rin thì bám sát câu chữ quá nên đâm ra đọc hơi rối :( , VinhL thì thoáng quá, đọc rất hay, rất Anh, dễ hiểu nhưng e là...quá thoáng... :rolleyes: và hình như đâu có sửa bài của Rin mà là dịch lại, thành ra double work. HungNguyen mạo muội đề nghị 2 bạn tổ chức dịch theo team gồm những bước sau

• Lập translation team : gồm 2 hay nhiều translator mỗi người ôm 1 chương hoăc khi nào tranh thủ được thời gian nhiều thì dịch nhiều, bận quá thì dịch ít lại. Có ít nhất 1 advisor, am hiểu về lý học hoặc triết học, GS triết Tây học là tốt nhất.
• Lập Technical vocabulary : tránh tình trạng 1 thuật ngữ chuyên môn ở đầu sách dịch thế này, giữa sách kiểu khác, cuối sách lại kiểu khác ( dịch ADNH ở đây là 1 ví dụ ) nên có 1 bảng chú thích thuật ngữ chuyên môn dùng chung, trong đó có thể giải thích thêm nếu cần thiết. Tất cả ai tham gia dịch phải thống nhất dùng chung bảng Terminological vocabulary này. Việc này có thể tiến hành song song hoặc trước khi bắt tay vào dịch sách, và nếu làm tốt nó sẽ là cơ sở dữ liệu sau này cho toàn bộ sách lý học của sư phụ. Chắc chắn có 1 số từ lý học không thống nhất ở Việt nam và trên thế giới, hoặc 1 số từ có nhiều cách dịch. Nếu lập 1 mục riêng cho nó và mọi người tích cực ra vào, truy cập, đóng góp thêm thắt kiểu Wiki thì chẳng bao lâu theo nguyên tắc " tần suất" càng nhiều người tìm thì càng dễ google nhất , nó sẽ trở thành cách gọi mặc định.
• Lập Discussion forum : những câu chữ khó, không thể thống nhất thì đem vaò đây tranh luận. Nếu thống nhất được thì tốt, không thống nhất thì giải thích, ghi chú vô hẳn 1 trang đặc biệt để người đọc rộng đường suy xét.

Không dám múa rìu qua mắc thợ, vài dòng xin góp ý.

Chào bạn HungNguyen,

Ý kiến bạn rất là professional!!! VinhL hoàn toàn ủng hộ. Mong bạn tham gia ban Dịch Sách.

Hy vọng bạn lảnh phần technical vocabulary.

Không biết Thầy nghỉ sao?

Thành thật cám ơn

Xin góp một phần sức lực, chỉ sợ lực không tòng tâm. Mong các bạn có khả năng khác tham gia góp một tay.

Vậy đề nghị bạn Rin86 làm trưởng nhóm dịch, tổ chức phân công mỗi người mỗi việc tránh chồng chéo lẫn nhau....

Híc, ArtFriend có chút ý kiến nhỏ, nếu không phải mong Sư Phụ bỏ qua.

Là thế này:

AF đã suy nghĩ nhiều về Từ Vựng này.

Đã lâu thấy Sư Phụ thường hay dịch PHONG THUY thành fongsui(nghe vừa Tàu, vừa Anh), chẳng qua tiếng Anh nó lấy tiếng tàu để dịch. Vậy tại sao Ta không lấy tiếng Việt để phổ cập cho toàn thế thế giới này.

Vậy nên dịch: Phong Thủy là Phong Thuy(đây chính là Tiếng Anh), đọc vào biết ngay và đặt nền móng Văn hiến hơn 5000 năm của Ta.

Vài lời nếu không phải, mong chú bỏ qua.

Hi! Trong các bài viết trên diễn đàn - ngoịa trừ những tiểu luận nghiêm túc, tôi cũng hay khôi hài. Từ "Phoeng xui", hoặc "phong xui", "phong hên"...là tôi đùa thôi. Tuy nhiên từ "phoengxui" là từ Anh hóa khái niệm phong thủy mà người biết tiếng Anh đều biết, khi dịch thì chúng ta cứ dùng. Chúng ta không câu nệ tiểu tiết. Khi cái thế giới khốn khổ này biết đến lý thuyết thồng nhất thì họ sẽ học tiếng Việt để nghiên cứu trực tiếp.

Kính Sư Phụ,

Đôi khi đùa như vậy cũng mất đi cái tàm mức giá trị của cau từ, xin Sư Phụ hiệu chỉnh cho.

Còn về "Chúng ta không câu nệ tiểu tiết"

Thưa Sư Phụ, dĩ nhiên khi việc lớn chưa làm xong, thì tiểu tiết nhỏ có thành công cũng bằng không. Không phải lấy bài của TQ ra áp dụng nhưng mưa dầm thấm đất. Mong Sư Phụ suy xét đưa từ Phong Thuy vào thay trong khi dịch.

Kính Sư Phụ.

Kính Sư Phụ,

Đôi khi đùa như vậy cũng mất đi cái tàm mức giá trị của cau từ, xin Sư Phụ hiệu chỉnh cho.

Còn về "Chúng ta không câu nệ tiểu tiết"

Thưa Sư Phụ, dĩ nhiên khi việc lớn chưa làm xong, thì tiểu tiết nhỏ có thành công cũng bằng không. Không phải lấy bài của TQ ra áp dụng nhưng mưa dầm thấm đất. Mong Sư Phụ suy xét đưa từ Phong Thuy vào thay trong khi dịch.

Kính Sư Phụ.

NguyenKim mạo mụi xin được có ý kiến.

Việc dùng ngôn từ của ta là ý kiến rất hay vì nhiều lý do nó giúp người ngoại quốc nhớ đến phong thủy Lạc Viêt, nguồn gốc của nó và phân biết nó với phong thủy tàu ngay từ cái tên, từ thuật ngữ. dần dần người nghiên cứu sẽ quen và dùng thường xuyện hơn. Nếu dùng fengshui thì rất có khả năng người ngoại quốc cho rằng phong thủy Lạc Viêt có nguồn gốc từ tàu nếu họ không nghiên cứu kỹ. Nếu cháu nhớ không lầm thì một trong những yếu tố khẳng định Kinh Dịch là của người Việt là dựa vào phát âm của quẻ.

Hơn nữa, nếu người ngoại quốc nghiên cứu về phong thủy của người Việt thì họ cũng muốn biết tiếng Việt Phong thủy đọc là gì? Bên cạnh đó, trong bài cũng định nghĩa rõ ràng thuật ngữ "Phong thủy" bằng tiếng Anh, thì người ngoại quốc sẽ hiểu được phong thủy là gì. Tuy tốn công nhưng có ý nghĩa.

Mong chú Thiên sứ cân nhắc đề xuất của Artfriend.

NK

Đồng ý với ý kiến của NguyenKim và Artfriend.

Vậy tôi đề xuất cụm từ Phong Thủy Lạc Việt, chúng ta có thể dùng những cụm từ sau:

1 - phoengxui Lac Viet.

2 - Những yếu tố ảnh hưởng đến nhà ở từ văn minh Việt cổ.

3 - Phương pháp kiên trúc Việt cổ.

4 -.......

Có thể những đề xuất này chỉ là ý niệm chưa hoàn chỉnh. Nhờ anh chị em góp ý.

Cảm ơn Sư Phụ lại phải quan tâm và đồng ý.(0+1+0+1...)

1. PhongThuyLacViet(PTLV), thôi lun từ phoengxui.

2. Factors affecting the housing of PTLV, Elements affect tenement of PTLV

3. Method architecture Vietnamese Peanut, Archietecture method of Vietnamese Peanut.

4. .....

Kính Sư Phụ, nhờ các Anh chị chỉnh sửa.

Từ quốc tế chính thức của phong thủy là fengshui . Chứng minh rất dễ dàng bằng cách lên gú gồ search fengshui thì ra hằng hà sa số lý thuyết lẫn ứng dụng của Tây Tàu, cổ kim về phong thủy. Những từ khác không hề có hoặc rất ít chủ yếu do tài liệu đó sai chính tả.

Thiển ý HungNguyen thì việc chinh phục thiên hạ chú trọng nội dung, hình thức chỉ là phương tiện. Chính vì hình thức chỉ là phương tiện chuyên chở, giúp PTLV tiếp cận thiên hạ thì bắt buộc phải dùng ngôn ngữ của thiên hạ. Việc này không thể duy ý chí hay tự tôn dân tộc được. Có nói cùng 1 thứ ngôn ngữ với thiên hạ, từ ngữ họ đã quen dùng cả trăm năm nay, thì mới mong họ để mắt đến. Một khi chinh phục được họ với nội dung đúng đắn của mình rồi, qua giai đoạn " ta cầu thiên hạ " rồi, đến giai đoạn " thiên hạ cầu ta " thì muốn chuyển thành cái gì cũng xong.

Đó là lợi ích thứ nhất. Lợi ích thứ hai là nếu nói fengshui, lập tức 1 thằng Tây hiểu lờ mờ, hoặc rõ ràng rằng ta muốn nói đến cái gì. Còn nói phong thủy, thì sau đó phải chua ngay...bla ...bla...chua được phân nữa thì nó bỏ đi mất tiêu vì hết kiên nhẫn. Còn nếu nó đủ kiên nhân ngồi nghe mình bla..bla...xong thì buông ra 1 câu gọn lõn...à...mày nói đến fengshui đó hả, sao không nói ngay từ đầu....Mình lại nổi điên lên...bla..bla...rằng không phải này, không phải nọ...cuối cùng nghĩ lại " ủa, thoạt tiên mình định nói với nó cái gì "....hết giờ.

Còn việc sư phụ nói vui, nói trại đi trong diễn đàn thì theo HungNguyen chẳng sao cả, vì môn này bản chất khô như ngói, nói vui, bình dân hóa, đôi khi lại hóa hay, dễ đi vào lòng người. Dĩ nhiên khi ra diễn đàn thế giới, hay hội đồng các nhà khoa học, thì phải dùng ngôn ngữ hàn lâm. Mà nói thật nếu sư phụ có đẳng cấp quốc tế rồi, được quốc tế công nhận rồi thì ra diễn đàn quốc tế muốn nói gì cũng xong, ai muốn hiểu thì ráng mà tìm hiểu. Chừng đó sư phụ nói "cái môn gió nước này...bla..bla..." họ cũng vỗ tay khen hay...Đó gọi là cái lý của người chiến thắng. Muốn hay không cũng phải chấp nhận và nương theo nó để phát huy quang đại.

Lý luận của Bác quả thật kinh hồn.

Chừng đó sư phụ nói "cái môn gió nước này...bla..bla..." họ cũng vỗ tay khen hay...Đó gọi là cái lý của người chiến thắng. Muốn hay không cũng phải chấp nhận và nương theo nó để phát huy quang đại.

ArtFriend cũng chỉ muốn sớm có ngày này.

Thuận theo ý Bác.

Kính Bác.

Những trường hợp này Rin86 phải tái cấu trúc câu trước khi dịch.

Ví dụ câu "Kể từ lúc xuất hiện chiếc cán dao bằng đồng thể hiện y phục từ thời Hùng Vương 300 năm tr.CN trở về trước, cũng không có thay đổi là bao nhiêu." có thể tái cấu trúc thành

"Kể từ lúc xuất hiện trên chiếc cán dao bằng đồng, y phục từ thời Hùng Vương 300 năm tr.CN về trước cho đến nay cũng không có thay đổi là bao nhiêu."

Rõ ràng dịch dễ hơn nhiều. Vấn đề là có đúng ý tác giả hay không?

Việc tái cấu trúc này đòi hỏi phải hiểu và nắm rõ ý tác giả. Chính vì vậy buộc người dịch phải đọc toàn bộ tác phẩm một cách kỹ lưỡng, nếu cần hỏi lại những chổ trúc trắc, trước khi bắt tay vào dịch.

Chưa đọc hết sách sư phụ nên muốn giúp Rin cũng không giúp được, chỉ thỉnh thoảng chọt chọt thế này, đừng cáu nhé.

Chào HungNguyen

Đề xuất của HungNguyen là phương pháp chính thống, hết sức nghiêm túc.

Hà Uyên xin một lời động viên tới bạn Rin86.

..........

"Kể từ lúc xuất hiện chiếc cán dao bằng đồng thể hiện y phục từ thời Hùng Vương 300 năm tr.CN trở về trước, cũng không có thay đổi là bao nhiêu."

Chào bạn Rin86,

Có thể dịch như sau:

From the presence of the bronze knife staff which illustrated the costume of Hung dynasty 300 BC to the prior period, not many changes has occurred.

Thân